Humility personified. Former Minister, Water Resources and Former Deputy Governor of Sokoto State, His Excellency, Barrister Mukhtari Shehu Shagari CFR, took time out with Scroll Report Correspondent, Edoamaowo Udeme to air his views on how Former President Olusegun Obasanjo cheated him on his mandate, national issues on elections and security, and calls for a National Conference on Security. Excerpts;
His Excellency, what was your motivation in politics?
What motivated me was patriotism and the mere fact that once given the opportunity, one will be able to contribute his own small way to the development of the country through democratic means. That is the reason why I am in politics. In a nutshell, I am in politics to serve the country and people.
How do you rate the performance of President Buhari?
The performance of Buhari will be determined by Nigerians who voted him. I belong to the opposition party the PDP, I am not the spokesperson of the party, we have our National Publicity Secretary, I don’t have the responsibility to speak on his performance but I think that in 2019, the Nigerian electorates will decide whether Buhari has done well or if he has disappointed them based in the promises he made to Nigerians, as long as I belong to the PDP, I will still root for whichever candidate the party fields. But I must say that we have a lot of challenges in this country today, we have challenges in the area of security, poverty, employment, youth restiveness, even the democratic process is facing a lot of challenges because of what happened in Ekiti during the last elections and also in Osun State. I hope that the Federal Government, INEC and the people of this country will rise up to ensure that 2019 elections are peaceful, transparent, fair and ensure that whoever is defeated will accept defeat.
In your personal opinion, do you think that Osun State election was free and fair?
With what I have read, what I have seen on television and the opinion of international observers, I cannot describe that Osun State election was free and fair
Looking at reported vote buying in Osun, are you seeing electorates having a voice in 2019?
It is very unfortunate that this country is being ravaged by poverty to the extent that people can sell their own rights for peanuts because, the allegations being made by the international community is that people are selling their votes. The tragedy of that is this; If you sell your property to me then you don’t expect me to give you a room in the same property. if you sell your votes to the highest bidder and at the end of the day he wins, you don’t expect him to provide you with any dividends of democracy because you’ve already sold your rights, I think this thing happening is also a threat to democracy because in a democracy, an election must be done in a manner that you exercise your own responsibility as a voter without any inducement, but unfortunately, it seems to be getting worst and the electorates are also falling for it. I think it is really very unfortunate and unless we change our attitude, this country will continue to suffer because people are allowed to buy votes, they invest their money and when you invest your money in business, what you expect is profit, that explains why when people are elected to the National Assembly, they simply push Governors aside and do what will just help them and their friends and families, so vote buying, is unfortunate, shameful, embarrassing, undemocratic and has also shown the level of poverty we have in this country. I think the Federal Government has to work harder to change things.
Should we now look at President Buhari as a failure?
I wouldn’t want to call anybody a failure by 2019, we will see if Buhari has failed or succeeded, that is the way I want to put it.
With the way things are going now for PDP, are you defecting?
I happen to be a founding member of PDP. I, with one Bello Dangi and others, spearheaded the Sokoto PDP. I took PDP to Sokoto, I toured all the local governments to ensure that the party was well established there. After all we did, we won 15 local government while the opposition party then, the ANPP, won only about 8. Since that time, I have remained in the party despite the fact that a lot of painful things were done to me. In 2007, I won the primary election with 80% votes, the then President Olusegun Obasanjo was convinced by some people and he took the mandate from me and gave it to somebody and I became the deputy governor where I served for 8 years. I didn’t complain at that time because my main concern was to ensure that PDP forms the government of Sokoto State. I also believe in the supremacy of our party. Eventually, my governor left and went to the APC, I decided to stay on despite the fact that it was a threat to my position as deputy governor and my political future. I remained steadfast in the party. In 2015 when I was hoping to be fielded as a candidate, unfortunately again, the then President Goodluck Jonathan brought in Bafarawa and handed over the party to him, and they decided to field another candidate even though it was a seriously shamed primary election which I was given only 1 vote which was very ridiculous, with all these, I stayed and supported the party. I am still in the party and hope that nothing serious can be done to make me stop changing my position as part of the party.
So, what is the internal problem of PDP?
The problem with PDP is impunity which I believe is still there, also, lack of respect for people who have been steadfast and loyal to the party, to me, the party has not shown any intention to reward loyalty and to respect the people who really stood despite all sorts of problems, I hope. that in this 2019 elections, the primaries and the rest of it, the party will do what is right. If the party does what is right, then we stand a very good chance but if they still behave the way they behave, then I think we are going to have serious problems.
Have you forgiven the former President Obasanjo for what he did to you, I mean giving your mandate to someone else?
The thing is this, President Obasanjo nominated and appointed me as a Minister at that time, there was so much talk about my nomination being some external influence somewhere but the then Information Minister, Professor Jerry Gana, issued a statement that I was appointed on merit, and up till today, nobody has come out to say “I was the one who told Obasanjo to appoint you”. Obasanjo gave me a very important ministry, he supported me and we made a lot of progress in dams, water irrigation, rural and urban water supply and a whole lot of things, even international communities acknowledged my performance, and because of that, I was reappointed to the same ministry. It was my superlative performance in that ministry that Obasanjo awarded me with the third highest honor in the country the CFR. He was the one who asked me to resign from that position to contest for the governorship of my state, which he later gave to somebody else but when I look at that, even though what he did to me was very painful, I realized that I still have time ahead of me, again, this man has given me an opportunity to serve this country because as I said to you earlier, my main objective is to serve the country and the people and he gave me that opportunity so I decided that he is a human being, we all can make mistakes whether you are a President or not, coupled with the fact that he had absolute confidence in me by appointing and reappointing me again, and also awarded me with that honor, so having made that mistake, if I should call it mistake, I realized he was advised, so, on that note, I should have a large heart. I bear no grudges against him, I am actually grateful to him for giving me the opportunities. I also went back home to serve as a Deputy Governor which I performed wonderfully well, despite everything, my Governor and I never quarreled. Obasanjo has played a very important role in my life. So, what happened that time was nothing but politics. He made a mistake and I believe he realized that it was a mistake.
What of President Goodluck Jonathan have you forgiven him also?
I also have nothing against Goodluck Jonathan, at that time he was also fighting for his own political life and there were so many issues like security, insurgency and so many other things and even though I supported him fully in 2011 because I was the first northerner to tell my people in the North that we have to support him because one good turn deserves another, for over 50 years, his own people have supported the North so if someone from that axis came out to contest I believe we needed to support him. I was the first person to do that and I supported him fully, even in 2015, I gave him all my support. I normally don’t hold grudges against people, one of the virtues I have is forgiveness.
There are so many candidates rooting for the PDP Presidential ticket, who is your choice, who are you supporting?
For now, I am not in the campaign organization of any candidate even though one of them put me in the campaign council, I also have my own political battle to fight so I am facing that one. Every candidate in the PDP today, has the capacity to be the President of this country, at the end of the day, that is if we have a free, fair and transparent primaries, delegates either elected or selected by the party from the states and the local government will determine who the best candidate is. As for me, whoever the party fields as a candidate, I will definitely support him.
Are you contesting for governor in 2019 in Sokoto State?
Well, I actually made my point very clear but there are certain issues which I would not be able to discuss with you now but we will see how it goes.
But if you make up your mind to contest what will you do differently from what the present government is doing?
You have to understand that the present government was initially in APC, the governor only decamped about a month ago so I wouldn’t start comparing and judging him but the good thing is that the people of Sokoto State know who I am, Nigerians know who I am and what I can do and I believe that of all the governorship contestants in Sokoto, nobody has the level of experience in governance than I have and nobody has achieved as much as I have achieved. One thing is for sure, If I happen to be the governor of Sokoto State, I will have an open government, it will be so transparent, it will be geared towards developing the state and the people themselves. I will give attention to education because if you educate people, you educate the nation and you make their lives better. I will provide infrastructure, healthcare delivery, water, social development. All these are things that can be done. There will also be a very effective management of scarce resources that we have, put them into implementing projects that can make the lives of the common man better. So, for me, it will be government of the people for the people and by the people. Not for me, not for my family not for my friends, but for the people of Sokoto State.
Despite the limitations of a deputy governor, can you pinpoint your achievements, the impact and your reach to the grassroots people of Sokoto State?
After our election and our swearing in, the governor assigned the Ministry of Agriculture to me, for the two years I managed that ministry, I made sure that farmers in Sokoto never lacked fertilizers because I ensured transparent and effective distribution of fertilizers to farmers to the extent that we had enough and we were asking the farmers to come and buy because we made it available for them. It was highly commended and described as the best in the history of Sokoto. I also came out with the idea of introducing the College of Agricultural Science which has since been established. The reason was this, if you are talking about agriculture and making it the mainstay in the economy of your state, you can also develop people financially, then you have to create an institution where you can train extension staff that will go to the villages and teach the farmers how to produce 20 tons in a place where the usually produce maybe 5 to 10 tons. I also ensured that we came out with a very holistic water resources development for the state and in the Executive Council, I also brought my own experience to bear because if you had the opportunity of working at the highest level of government before going to the state, it’s just like child’s play. So, my experience of attending international conferences and being chairman of so many institutions helped me work well. I was the first Chairman and President of the Africa’s Council on Water. I actually led so many United Nations’ institutions, I gained a lot of experiences and brought it to bear on the way our state was governed, so, together with the Governor, we achieved quite a lot in infrastructural developments but there are still challenges. The issue is, if you are not the governor, you still have limitations, so I knew my rights and limitations because am a lawyer. So, throughout our working together, there was no friction between me and the governor. We still call each other, in fact after leaving the Mosque today, I will call him and we say hello to each other even though we belong to different political parties, that is the way it should be because political powers shouldn’t be used to intimidate and traumatized people, rather it should be used for the benefit of the people, and the two of you, the Governor and Deputy should understand that the power was given to you temporarily for you to do the best you can, so, don’t allow that to come in between your personal relationship. You may have a little misunderstanding here and there, its normal, but that shouldn’t be an impediment. I actually believe that if you seek the opinion of people about me in Sokoto today, a lot of people will tell you they hope Mukhtari Shagari will be governor because we know that he will bring a lot of developments to the state.
You said you performed well as Minister of Water Resources but we still have the slogan “Water, water everywhere but not enough to drink”. Is it that the people that took over you are retrogressing?
As far as l am concerned, I left behind a National water policy which if it had been followed holistically, things would have been different. By the time I took over as Minister, the total coverage of portable water in the country was just about 35%. We planned on getting at least 50% cover but by the time I left it was 55%. So, we had a 5% bonus, that even the World Bank attested to that fact because one day, the President called me and gave me a letter from the United Nations acknowledging the level of coverage we achieved. If the people had followed the programme we left behind, things will have been completely different but I know that there are still projects we left behind that is not completed, it could be the issues of funding, but one of the major problems we have in Nigeria is lack of continuity. We were able to achieve that much because I was determined to achieve it and I had a President who supported me fully, I also had staff who were yearning for leadership and I gave it to them. We were all committed to it. We also had a plan and had a national water policy that makes everybody a partner. From the Federal, State, Local governments and the communities. Across the country any water tank you see with Green White Green is the federal government project because we wanted it to be different from the ones executed by the state and local governments. We also trained people it was working very well. Whether those concepts are still working now, I don’t know because it’s almost 12 years now. One of my flagship projects is the Gurara Water Transfer Project. We constructed a dam that impounds over 800 million cubic of water and they will intermittently open it to flow to Usuma Dam so that they will have enough water to treat and supply to Abuja, without that dam, Abuja would have been an impossible place to live. That project was not only to transfer water to Usuma, but it added about 30 megawatts of power, which was completed and was evacuated to Kaduna in order to revive out textile industries but I don’t think that evacuation has been completed even though it has started. Additionally, I added irrigation project to it that is why in that area now many big men in Abuja are now growing rice and other things. I also ensured that the pipes used for these projects are manufactured here in Nigeria. The factory is still there.
Where is the factory located?
Close to Usuma dam, we made it close to the dam so that it will be easier to move the pipes. What happened was that I promised President Obasanjo that we will complete the projects within 3 years, I realized that if we were to import the pipes, it will take us about 10 years because we needed 3 diameter pipes for 75 kilometers, you can imagine the nightmare of bringing those pipes that are so big you can drive a Jeep through and it is only a specialized vehicle that can carry only one pipe at a time, so we brainstormed with the contractors on the possibility of establishing a steel company that could manufacture the pipes very close to where it was needed and they accepted, I then took a memo to the President and he was excited about it. We went to Scotland, had meetings with them and within a month, the President gave us a land and we started immediately. One of the inducements we gave our contractors was that the President will write to NNPC and other oil companies to buy pipes from them and I think that are still producing. So, from a single purpose, I turned it into multi-purpose and not a single pipe was imported for that project. We did a lot and I must say with all honesty and modesty that, no Minister of Water Resources in this country has done half of what I did. That is why Obasanjo gave me a CFR. I believe Nigeria is a great country with a lot of potentials, we have the resources both human and natural, all we need is good leadership. If you have a good leader without a good team, you achieve nothing and vice versa. President Obasanjo had a cabinet which was adjudged one of, if not the best in the history of Nigeria, and I am so proud to have been a member of that cabinet and I also thank Obasanjo for the opportunity he gave me.
Talking about insecurity in the country what do you think President Buhari or whoever is coming in as President in 2019 should do differently?
First of all, the situation is regrettable, the 2015 election in particular was fought partly because of issues of insecurity, but from all indices and news stories we get daily, the insecurity has escalated, people are being abducted in the villages, just yesterday I got a call from someone in Sokoto that armed men went to a village there and abducted his uncle and are demanding for N5 million. So, this thing has gone to places where there was total security before. This issue is very serious and I believe that the President should sit with his security personnel and advisers to look at the issue. Is it equipment or welfare of military personnel that are sent to tackle it? is it the borders? What is really wrong? Security issues is not why we should put the blame on one person, it is for all Nigerians, for that reason, I believe there should be a National Conference on security matters in the country.
Are you calling for a National conference on security issues in the country?
Yes, so that knowledgeable people will brainstorm on security issues while the mainstream security officials will also be doing their own job. We should be humble enough to accept the fact that we have security issues in this country. We should not be lying to Nigerians because if we are saying we have finished with Boko Haram but they are still attacking military installations and killing soldiers and abducting people and also herdsmen attacking and killing people in Plateau, Benue, Sokoto, parts of Zamfara and Kaduna and hoodlums who are going to villages at will, block the roads and take about 40-50 people at once and demand for ransom, something is definitely wrong. So, we really need to put some experts together, carefully selected experts for a National conference on security. I advise whoever will become the next President to look into that so that peace will return to this as it used to be.
I appreciate this opportunity His Excellency.
Thank You.
